Are 'scary' packs of dogs ruining your local park? 'Terrified' pet owners back calls for a 4-dog limit after woman was mauled to death - but professional walkers claim it will lead to hundreds of animals being put down
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A furious 'war over walkies' has broken out between pet owners, who say they're 'terrified' by large packs of dogs in their local open spaces, and professionals who claim a limit on the numbers they can walk at any on time put them out of business.
This week a coroner called on Home Secretary Yvette Cooper to introduce a limit to the number of dogs which can be walked at one time after professional dog walker Natasha Johnston, 28, was mauled to death while walking eight dogs in Caterham, Surrey, on January 12, 2023.
She was set upon by eight crazed animals under her care, including her own banned bull terrier, suffered penetrating dog bites to her torso, neck and arms during the attack.
Now furious dog owners have blasted professional walkers who take up to eight dogs out and backed calls for new legislation to ban any one person from walking more than four at a time - a number they still feel is too high.
However, in Reigate, Surrey, where legislation has already been imposed, profesional walkers say they risk losing their jobs and claim hundreds of hounds could be euthanised if the local council continue to enforce a four dog walking limit.
Natasha Johnston, 28, was mauled to death near Gravelly Hill in Caterham, Surrey
A professional walker demonstrates how he safely walks up to nine dogs all at the same time, with some on long leads
Reigate & Banstead Borough Council unveiled the plans in August after policy makers said professional dog walkers are unable to control packs of more than four at a time, citing advice from the RSPCA and pet business insurers.
The plans, brought in as public space protection orders (PSPOs) without any consultation following a survey of just 400 in an area of 156,000 people, blindsided Karen Fry, a local dogwalker of 20 years, and others who say they have been 'discriminated' against.
She and other dog walkers now face an £80 fine if caught with more than four dogs, which could rise to as much as £1,000.
The 60-year-old, who runs Wag & Mama in Reigate, which offers a told MailOnline: 'It's come through the backdoor, they've not looked at the issues. The council have asked not one behaviourist, not one trainer, not one person in the dog world was even approached.
'I walk four or five dogs a day, but when people who work in the services have to go somewhere they can ring us ad-hoc and we can walk their dogs bringing the number to six. This is what we've lost. It has worked fine for years.
'There is so much demand, we turn down so much everyday, those dogs won't get walked and if they're not walked, they end up in rescue or are given up or even euthanised.
'My next door neighbour could go and buy four Rottweilers tomorrow and walk them, just like that. How can this new law be fine?'
Of the nearly 100 dog attacks which took place across Reigate, Mole Valley and Tandridge in the last three years, not a single incident involved canines under the control of dog walkers, figures show.
'The danger isn't us', Karen says, who is facing losing half of her income if the plans are kept and has launched a petition calling for a permit system to be brought in for professional dog walkers to be allowed to walk any number of dogs.
Karen Fry (pictured) and other dog walkers now face an £80 fine if caught with more than four dogs, which could rise to as much as £1,000
Fry, a local dogwalker of 20 years, and others say they have been 'discriminated' against
The plans, brought in as public space protection orders (PSPOs) without any consultation following a survey of just 400 in an area of 156,000 people
Kerry Keith, who works for Pet, Love & Care, does three walks a day at Fellands Copse Park in Reigate, added: 'I disagree with the limit. It all depends on the dogs you're walking.
'I've never had an issue, the only people that have issues are people that don't like dogs.'
Vikki Smith, says her and her husband wouldn't be able to keep Milo the Cockerpoo if it wasn't for Karen walking him, sometimes at short notice.
She said: 'We both work from home but we are customer facing so are out. For us it gives us a complete peace of mind to do our job and have the flexibility to do our jobs.'
Questions over dog walking limits were raised by a coroner at the inquest of Natasha Johnston, 28, who had been walking eight dogs in Gravelly Hill, Caterham, when she was fatally attacked on 12 January 2023.
Senior Surrey coroner Richard Travers said 'the lack of regulation to control dogs' was a serious concern across the country.
Limits on dog walkers is nothing new and permit systems are in place across many local authorities in the UK, including in London, where dog walkers told MailOnline they were in favour of limits.
Mick Doran, 58, has run The London Dog Walking Company for 20 years and revealed how the City of London Corporation, which runs Hampstead Heath, where he walks, has limited the number of dogs to four per dog walker.
He told MailOnline: 'Most of the parks in London already have a licensing scheme, it's the second year now, we've already adapted as dog walkers.
'There were people that were walking ten, twelve, fourteen dogs. I could probably walk six or seven and be in control. Most people are sticking to the rules of the permit. It's never been a problem with dog walkers, they know what they are doing with their dogs, it's more the general public where the problems arise.
'The hardest thing for a dog walker is when other people let their unruly dogs come into my pack and cause havoc, it can happen daily.'
Kerry Keith, who works for Pet, Love & Care, does three walks a day at Fellands Copse Park in Reigate
'I disagree with the limit. It all depends on the dogs you're walking,' she said
Lambeth allow professional dog walkers to purchase a range of permits ranging from £391.58 to walk six, while walking up to four dogs will cost £130.53
But Mick did admit the four dog limit has gravely impacted his business, adding: 'What people don't realise is that it might be £20 to walk a dog for an hour, I might be walking four dogs, great for an hour's work, but you forget about the 30/40 minutes picking up and dropping them off. Most dog walkers, if they are lucky can do two walks a day. The top line looks great but the bottom line isn't.'
Lambeth allow professional dog walkers to purchase a range of permits ranging from £391.58 to walk six, while walking up to four dogs will cost £130.53.
Natasha Cox, of Happy Little Paws in South London, agrees that the permits are necessary but says the main issue is about a dog walker's control over dogs.
She told MailOnline: 'I walk four, six is fine, but eight or even sometimes ten dogs? You can't control that many dogs, unless they're all on a lead, you're not in control. If you have eight perfect dogs, then that's fine. But they must have recall and be good on the lead.'
She believes the permits have been brought in for the safety of the public, adding: 'There's one guy I see in Brockwell Park who has at least eight. That is not right. I don't think you can have control of that many dogs.
'If they're not yours, you don't have a handle on their training. I am a trainer as well and their is only so much you can do.'
Reigate and Banstead Council were approached for comment.
However, regular walkers out and about with their pets support the plans to put a limit on numbers, saying they fear another death like Natasha's.
In Dartford, Kent, parkgoers said they feel 'terrified' by large groups and one walker Martin Latham, 74, who walks his Boxer Terry, two, regularly sees up to eight at one time.
The retired builder said: 'It's shocking. I can often see up to eight at one go, often six or death. I think how stupid can they be? Nobody can control that many in one go.
Sales assistant Paula Lorenzini, 60, has four dogs but only walks a maximum of two at a time, and says that she stays away from large groups. Pictured with Bella a cockerpoo and Elsie, a Belgian Malenois, on Dartford Heath
Pat Southin walks his two dogs, Dolly and Dave, a pair of Parson's Jack Russells, on Dartford Heath. He said he always keeps them on the lead and said if one gets threatened they have a pack mentality
Sales assistant Paula Lorenzini, 60, has four dogs but only walks a maximum of two at a time.
The Dartford resident said: 'I think two is sensible, anymore is not.
'It scares me when I see big groups. There's areas where that was happening and now I avoid them. I stay away. If one was to run off, there is no way the owner could handle it and then it could be a horrible situation.
'It's how deaths happen and serious injury. I stay away from groups. I absolutely keep my distance.'
Paula also backed calls for new legislation.
She added: 'I am not sure how it would work but I would support it. It would stop a lot of problems. It's how bad situations happen.
'I have had dogs for 45 years so have had a lot of experience of controlling them.
'When I see one person and a group I think Jesus, how are you managing that? It could go horribly wrong at any second.'
Pat Southin, 60, who also lives in Dartford, walks his dogs regularly and sees the issues.
He said: 'I worry a lot about it. I have two Jack Russells, they are great. But if one gets threatened they have a pack mentality.
'They are always on their lead and I can control two.
'People with more than that, and up to six or seven, it's just mad. It can cause major incidents.'
People walking their pets in Southampton, Hampshire, also said it is dangerous to walk as many as eight dogs at once like Ms Johnston did.
Speaking as they walked their pets on Southampton Common, a popular spot in the city for walkers, owners warned of the 'pack-like mentality' dogs can have.
Owners suggested that the number of dogs that can be walked at one time is restricted to four.
Grace Harwood was out walking her goldendoodle Nelly on Southampton when she spoke about her concerns about certain breeds of dogs.
The 35-year-old said: 'There's too many different types of breeds, I get more scared of those pitbull dogs.'
It has been reported that Natasha Johnston's own pitbull attacked her on the day that she died.
Mrs Harwood, who works as a hairdresser in Southampton, thinks the maximum number of dogs being walked by one person should be four.
'For the safety of the dog owner', she said. 'Dogs can get a bit pack-like mentality.
'I would be worried the person wouldn't have full control, and if there's kids around...'
However, she added: 'If I saw eight small dogs I would be fine. It's breed dependent as well.'
Susie Hutton, 58, is from the Isle of Wight and was visiting her daughter-in-law and one-year-old grandson in Southampton Common when she said: 'Six, seven, eight - that seems far too many to me in one go.
'You've just got to lose control of one…'
The retired bank worker has two dogs herself, Maltipoos named Sydney and Freddie.
She continued: 'You can't go running in eight different directions. It's too many, far too many.
'I get pulled along by two little ones. They're pretty strong when they see a cat - they're only little. That's far too many.'
She added: 'I have always been nervous of big dogs, so if there was eight big dogs I would be like 'woah'.'
Mike Bundock, 78, thinks owners are most at fault for the behaviour of their dogs.
He said: 'You just have to look at those programmes like Dogs Behaving Badly to see how the owners don't do their job properly.
'It's mostly about the owners, most dogs are good dogs.'
Retired Mr Bundock, who worked as an electronic engineer, owns Roxy, a seven-year-old Belgian Shepherd dog.
On the American Bully XL, the breed of one of the dogs that Ms Johnston was walking on the day she died, Mr Bundock said: 'I have read lots of stories about dogs mauling people.
'I'm of the very strong opinion that the dog's behaviour's controlled by the owner or the trainer, but I think those particular dogs have a mean streak in their DNA.
'I think we can train it out of them.'
Lawrence Wright's wife has worked as a dog trainer, and she believes there should be a four dog limit for an individual walking pets.
The 59-year-old who constructs film sets said: 'My wife was a dog trainer, she still works at dogs for the deaf [the charity] and she always said when we see those dog walkers, they have got too many dogs and she seemed to think that four dogs should be the maximum.
'Because you've got more control. Six dogs you have still got some control, but not the maximum.'
Speaking about his working cocker spaniel Jake as the dog escaped into a children's park, Mr Wright said: 'It's bad enough having one like him!'
He continued: 'We're lucky, we've been around dogs most our lives but I can imagine if you're walking around the park and you're confronted with someone with lots of dogs I can see why that would be scary.'
Grace Harwood, pictured with Nelly on Southampton Common, thinks the maximum number of dogs being walked by one person should be four.
Rhys Davies and Ivan (left) with Harley Shephard and Gaspode (right) on Southampton Common, said there should be more legislation around the training of dogs
Lawrence Wright , pictured with his dog Jake. His wife has worked as a dog trainer, and she believes there should be a four dog limit for an individual walking pets.
Harley Shephard, 30, and Rhys Davies, 23, were walking their assistance dogs together, and they think there should be a law about training dogs.
Ms Shephard said: 'I do think there needs to be more legislation around the training of dogs.'
Ms Davies agreed, adding: 'It's not the dogs, it's the owners.'
If Ms Shephard sees a big group of dogs, how concerned she is depends on their behaviour.
She said: 'If the dogs are calm and happy, I don't mind. But if they're pulling in different directions or they aren't listening…'
On walking big groups of dogs herself, Ms Shephard said: 'The max I would walk at a time would be three - or four, pushing it.'
She added: 'If I have more than three [dogs], I try and have a person with me anyway.'
